Display as a link instead, How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? KSP also tends to have very harsh induced drag if angle of attack gets too high. Due to the lower air pressure at higher altitudes its thrust output decreases accordingly. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. Then I increase throttle until about 2/3 or even full, climbing with a high inclination (it can also go straight up). AoA itself refers to the angle of the wing (or the whole plane if the AoI is 0)relative to the airflow. Even better, burn a little more, and you can pop out of the atmosphere for a bit and avoid all that nasty drag stuff. KSP - High Altitude Aircraft 16,702 views Jan 22, 2016 172 Dislike Share Save Phoenix Fleet Systems 222 subscribers Have a type of atmospheric craft you'd like to see me experiment with? EDIT: Essentially, make like an SR-71, if an SR-71 didn't have cooling problems limiting it to Mach 3.4. Since gravity is effectively lower, they don't need as much wing area to maintain altitude-- which, in turn, means less drag, which makes for more efficient flight. - Spamming airintakes didn't help. 2.) Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. Upload or insert images from URL. Originally posted by lord bird: yep thats right jool has a surface. Cookie Notice Press J to jump to the feed. Thanks for the help! All other versions are slower and lower and unstable in turns. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. My question is really about controllability. If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. High altitude flight is efficient because the air is thinner, and therefore aircraft experience less parasitic drag. I did some testing and found that the turbojets get the best Isp around 5.2 km altitude, so I was thinking of flying at that altitude. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. You arent doing anything wrong. So I've created those two planes, both with weasley turbofan engine: This is your problem-- as folks have pointed out, it's not a high-altitude engine. The drag differential is because your long-wing layout is using a bunch of struts, and the reason your delta-wing has a higher ceiling is because it has more wing area to provide lift. How to know if you've nailed it perfectly: when you're cruising in level flight, you want the marker to be precisely centered in your navball cross-hairs. With the tanks disconnected that way, the rockets don't leach from the jets. The stratospheric region, where temperature rises as altitude increases, spans the region between the altitudes of 10 km and 22 km. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). "Whiplash" Turbojet. I'm in career mode and got all groups of the 45-science-cost level, except Flight Control, and additionally have Electrics, Heavy Rocketry and Fuel Systems. I don't recall if they model aspect ratio, but either way, the struts are murder and the delta wing has so much more wing that it'll still have more lift. A little while back I spent a long time trying to circumnavigate Kerbin on the least liquid fuel possible (i posted the record to the sub: 254 units of fuel. I also added a parachute and decoupler since I find it too hard to correctly land this thing yet ;-) I managed to land in the water once, though. But since when do Kerbals wait for ideal conditions? There is a very close tolerance to the two speeds. It will be expensive and time consuming. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. I checked the wiki before I wrote my question, it seems I overread this paragraph Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? If drag were the only concern, at any given altitude the slower you go, the less fuel you need: the work done by drag over a distance grows linearly with speed (the force grows quadratically with speed, but the time falls linearly). Paste as plain text instead, How to make a loop for linear actuator in Kerbal Space Program, Breaking Ground. The high performance engine for me performs pretty good till about 15000 meter. Whiplash is the engine you would want to use on a plane meant to go 20km. ksp high altitude plane. If released at a speed of 700 or more m/s and an altitude of 20 or more km, the satellite will achieve orbit with its second stage mostly full, leaving it with approximately 1600 m/s of delta-V -- enough to achieve lunar or interplanetary orbits and, on small bodies, landings. So Pvt. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. You cannot paste images directly. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. To avoid running out of fuel altogether, I have a second plane with small tanks (no oxidizer) attached directly to the jet engines, and the rockets attached behind the fuselage, which is entirely oxidized tanks. The maximum cruise altitude is just over 40,000 feet. You'll notice that usually your prograde marker is slightly below your pitch. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. Air Intake) and how fast your aircraft ultimately flies (air resistance/altitude)! Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. There is no such thing as "so high radar can not detect it", since radar can detect things in outer space. Maneuver node plans don't take drag into account, so you'll have to overshoot quite a bit to compensate. And how many km can I expect to get per v (as calculated by Engineer redux Kerbin atmospheric stats, I know this is weird with planes)? (Disclaimer: I've never used FAR myself; all of the above is based on my experience with stock aerodynamics. Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. With only panthers unlocked I might add. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The Kerbal Space Program subreddit. Thank you, I was able to reach up to 24km altitude with this design. Because of the exponential nature of the rocket equationthe orbital rocket needs to be considerably bigger. Content titles and body; Content titles only Yes, although they have only been flown with nearly full tanks. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.. Visit Stack Exchange Upload or insert images from URL. To get there, you're going to want to climb at the fastest rate you can manage to 18-20 km, at which point you should mostly level off and start accelerating horizontally. - Insane lift to weight didn't help. You will find that when you're flying around, will always be slightly below the crosshairs on the navball. Also, Valley and Theomon fly to different corners of Kerbin and three mapping satellites are launched. Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/MikeAbenPatreon supporters receive early, ad-free, access to videos, kOS and craft files, and more. Discord - https://discord.gg/HTvT7dZ Making Space Home Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3Ia8aQsDKhqoFyoZ4d33MG7rS9KmDm_0:00 - Designing the Dudley Mk16:42 - Test Flights \u0026 Iterating13:45 - Col. Valley take the Seaplane to the Northern Ice Shelf19:30 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell Vb21:04 - Col. Theomon \u0026 Orlin Visit the Badlands in the Panther24:20 - Launch \u0026 Ejection of the Maxwell VI26:34 - Designing the SENTINEL 129:47 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell VIIFull List of Mods: Aviation Lights Chatterer Community Tech Tree Crew R\u0026R Croud Sourced Science Contract Configurator Contract Packs: Bases and Stations Reborn CommNet Relays Exploration Plus Field Research Kerbal Academy Tourism Plus Contracts Window+ Decoupler Shroud Easy Vessel Switch Kerbal Alarm Clock Kerbal Attachment System Kerbal Construction Time Kerbal Engineer Redux Kerbal Inventory System Kerbalism kOS KRASH Maneuver Node Evolved Navball Alignment Indicator Near Future Aeronautics Near Future Construction Near Future Electrical Near Future Propulsion Near Future Solar Near Future Spacecraft Persistent Rotation Rational Resources RCS Build Aid Continued Restock Restock+ SCANsat Scrapyard SMART Parts Stage Recovery Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux TAC Fuel Balancer Texture Replacer Trajectories Transfer Window Planner Universal Storage 2 Unkerballed Start Waypoint Manager Is it possible to get to an altitude of 16-20km with normal plane engines? I'm going to try adding a small solid fuel rocket engine toned down to get the initial height then dump it, as well as check into that high end gear mentioned. Your link has been automatically embedded. The Panther engine can hold 19,000 steady and oscillates around 20,000. General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, Stratus-V Cylindrified Monopropellant Tank, Kerbodyne KR-2L+ "Rhino" Liquid Fuel Engine, LFB KR-1x2 "Twin-Boar" Liquid Fuel Engine, T-1 Toroidal Aerospike "Dart" Liquid Fuel Engine, S1 SRB-KD25k "Kickback" Solid Fuel Booster, IX-6315 "Dawn" Electric Propulsion System, AE-FF1 Airstream Protective Shell (1.25m), AE-FF3 Airstream Protective Shell (3.75m), PB-NUK Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=J-404_%22Panther%22_Afterburning_Turbofan&oldid=95515. Immediately starting rocket engines at full throttle turned out to make most of my aircrafts totally unstable, turning them up gradually worked way better. Turbojets are so ridiculously efficient that it doesn't really matter. Your previous content has been restored. Or you need to put a little bit of angle of incidence in your wings, which will reduce drag since you don't have to pitch the entire plane up, but will be stuck at a fixed angle meaning you'll have to pitch up or down anyway during certain phases of the flight that the plane isn't optimised for. FBW uses three controllers - pitch, roll and yaw. Or about the same speed but 1000 m higher. Here's my example of dealing with the situation. The thrust of jets (turbo or otherwise) depends on airspeed: basics deliver more thrust at low speeds, while turbojets only really come into their own when you fly very fast (which also means flying very high, 20km and over). I don't have that other stuff yet. This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar at high altitudes! Have you checked out the wiki yet? Unfortunately, most space plane designs are impossible (or at the very least impractical) at your current tech level. jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. high-2 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program This causes the body of your plane to generate additional drag. Things that work at low altitude don't work so well up high and the plane ends up going up and down while slowly losing speed until it can't maintain altitude anymore. Dedicated to the growth and advancement of amateur rocket scientists! Chapter 4. You can spin around the whole world on just fumes. Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. How do you get out of a corner when plotting yourself into a corner. You can halve the drag by climbing a bit less than 3500m. Put a couple of radial mount parachutes just above the com and add a reaction wheel. As said above, the Wheesley is specifically designed as a low altitude engine. This makes jets built using this engine considerably more maneuverable. The ideal case for optimally efficient flight (which is what you want if you're trying to maximize cruise altitude) is when your wings are mounted to the body, pitched up just enough that when cruising in level flight, the body of the aircraft is pointing perfectly . Should i add a larger wing area for higher lift? Delta-V is the velocity change necessary to perform orbital maneuvers. Powered by Invision Community, Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane, I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: [] at hypersonic velocities. surface of jool. That's sub-optimal, because having the fuselage pitched like that means it'll have more drag than it otherwise would have. Welcome to the forums. That's just a guess, though-- perhaps someone more familiar with FAR could weigh in.). You can post now and register later. Will post my results. Privacy Policy. Make sure you've angled your wings up slightly so that you provide enough lift for a 0 angle of attack at top speed. It is somewhat slow but very steady in flight. : : . Using indicator constraint with two variables, Is there a solution to add special characters from software and how to do it. In this case lots of fuel is the wrong approach, I can get more than half way around Kerbin on 2 cans of Jet Fuel and a turbojet if I glide most of it. If not, please explain why, which I know you have no problem doing! A destructible memorial to the old Mk. It was meant for low altitude flight. That's all true, but just read the OP: hypersonic appears to be completely out of the question. Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. probably the easiest place to land in the system as terminal velocity is survivable for a craft less kerman.