Give the employee directives and start documenting when they fail so a case can be brought to get rid of them if it comes to that. Its performance is compromised by your pandering to the RIAA and MPAA. Senior directors are tenured members of an organization who are considered part of the leadership or executive team, in which they represent their department or division. Don't like branching strategy? Even with all good intentions, they can even be ineffective mentors (although I still highly recommend the mentoring program, as long as you change your mentor every year). Results-focused: they are focused on getting great results and don't entwine their ego to particular solutions. That is why to get to L65 a VP level person must know your work and be able to recall your name without help. Levels are different outside the US. Any idea on when is this going to change? A mistake was a huge cost. Great post and comments. I think one of the things that is frustrating is how opaque the promotion system really is. right? What does that look like in your mind? Nowadays, having been there and moved up, I would highly prefer someone that already succeeded as a Lead at Microsoft than a star individual contributor. Go and restart in another org and dig through their historical biz and people stability during your informationals. I know there is always new hope that comes with new leadership, but there is also a restart too. Your boss is the way to your promotion no matter where, what and when. No, never: now, going back to that <> question above: if your boss is answering "No, never" then this is a red-alert moment for you. I think there's only one thing I would add, from the perspective of having been promoted from L59 to L64 in a 6-year period in one org (I left MS in 2006).Sometimes things within an org will turn to complete crap, and either there's not an option to leave or you may not want to. the answer is simple - take on more. Feedback is not detailed or actionable. Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. Owning big features, knowledge about code base, ability to help your peers - irrelevant. At a intl sub level a 63 is two ic to the GM. PROFESSIONAL SKILLS & HIGHLIGHTS OF QUALIFICATIONS Over 20+ years of experience working in large-scale real-time corporate environments Able to communicate concepts and details to clients, development team and testing team Excellent organization and communication skills, both written and verbal: clear and concise Knowledge of computer development software across multiple platforms . At L63 in particular you break out of the pack with expertise in the "how" you accomplish things. Senior Director Levels at Microsoft 63 Senior Manager SDE Lead 64 Principal EM Principal Director of Engineering 65 Show 7 More Levels United States Average Total Compensation $515,638 Base Salary $243,377 Stock Grant (/yr) $194,043 Bonus $78,217 Get Paid, Not Played but I have to disagree with this statement.While it is true that it is difficult for managers to say what *exactly* an employee should do to get to the next level, it *should not* be impossible to list what experiences/qualities/results will qualify him to be a *strong* candidate for promotion to the next level.And this should not be that difficult - it is just a matter of syncing up with the peer leads, and dev manager, and discussing what their perception of an L63 is vs l62. One of the key lessons is to know who is the gate keeper for your career. Taking the easy escape out like that, you are more likely to get into the same situation at other companies. Its a bit like the famous phrase about the definition of obscenity. Sad but true Mini et al addressed this with the descriptions of the distinguishing traits you need to develop and demonstrate. Aren't those the things you are best at? Eng, Go to company page Rob Nelson - Senior Director of Inside Sales - LinkedIn We in general hire very smart people who can figure it out. Maybe you are ready, but you and your manager can plan what would be the assignment that would show that you're ready. Most are management types whose only skill is sucking up. Normally this is acceptable but right now i smell lawsuit. . (1) Oh, please. Furthermore, after reaching a plateua in order to get to the next level of development there is usually a dip in the current performance as the learner starts temporarily letting go of some of the skills they have mastered in order to experiment and try new things. What's worse is the noise this creates. Seriously - if you wave a competitor's offer in my face what have you told me? However, the results show that the vast majority of dev/test/pm will make level 63 and in a reasonable timeframe. When your manager finally ask you to do X, you'll be nodding your head and saying, "yeah, totally, and here's my progress on X." I'm sure others here will clarify.And apparently we will all know more in January. I've been at the same level for 3.5 years (since I joined MSFT), and while I spent three of those in a group where almost noone at all got promoted (a group which has since essentially dissolved), I'm concerned that my level stagnation reflects poorly on me, even though I've been the major contributor on products that have earned 10x my total compensation package for MSFT. Get a free, personalized salary estimate based on today's job market. Leak of Microsoft Salaries Shows Fight for Higher Compensation About Top-performing Senior Director in Digital Strategy & Commercial Development, with 25 years success in top-tier business across new Tech, data and digital in many sectors driving strategy,. It's hard for L63. It is my observation that the most common place we see disillusioned learners in the product groups at MS is at level 62. As a L64 I find getting to 65 quite a wall. Similarly, the best predictor of your success at the next level is your success at the current level! If it doesn't, what could you add to make that work? If you are working at Microsoft, plan well to climb up the job ladder. You may see lots of other people being jerks around you, but trust me, people remember when you are the nice, dependable, smart one.5. Why does the company reward and keep these numbskull managers that hold people back? Healthcare is the most common skill found on a senior director resume. Second, the perspective of a different team helps you generalize about best practices and what works and doesn't work. This is a good list. Satya Nadella. I made it to L63 in a year (I was probably under leveled when I arrived). Microsoft Director level role - Level 66 - what should I expect from COMP sideYOE-15Current TC- 235k There's this sort of nebulous "first you have to perform at level current+1 for a year, then you'll get promoted. The reason: there are a number of factors of success that are common at all levels (see #6 and #7 below). I'm not talking about "managing up" (though that helps a little if done properly) but it's all about understanding your manager and skip manager's priorities and proactively succeeding in those areas. Your own work is part of the goal. I heard that promotion budgets are significantly reduced at below 65 level. What now? So far, I haven't been successful. I actually find the content of this post to be superficial, fairly naive and not reflective of my experience having moved through the ranks from 59 to >65.Well please don't just tease us and leave it there. Over 20 years of experience in professional services including, architecture, corporate real estate, and integrated facility management, operating at a global and regional level. Its UI is fundamentally incoherent, showing probably the worst case of design-by-committee since the control room at Three Mile Island. I used to work in the OneCare team. L62 is supposed is own the room of L60s, L65 own the room of L63s, and so on. Your commitments should already provide you with milestones to set as your goals. Leaked Salary Spreadsheet Reveals Microsoft Employee Earnings for a I've also worked for great managers, and worked with great people on my team. My queries on any specific guidance would get no response or the response that youre a 62 and you should be able to figure it out. This will bump you off the fast-track 96% of the time.No matter how bad things are, always be positive, and provide a recommendation for how to address each problem. As a member of the Microsoft UK Senior Leadership Team, Olaf leads Microsoft's retail and consumer goods . He himself is principal for quite sometime. This past year I had what I thought was an outstanding year, was given a 20%, but not promoted to L63. Those people are almost all Level 62's with few prospects. If it isn't, well don't waste everyone's time building the wrong thing.When you think of it this way, you'll anticipate what your manager needs, you'll anticipate what your skip-level needs, and you'll be doing what they need even before they know they need it. (2): Wow, thanks for the early + great feedback. Vendors are also having it bad. Here are my thoughts on the Level 62 to Level 63 transition in the product groups: 1. Same here. It appears on 6.3% of resumes. Your response is private Was this worth your time? Eventually you have to make that leap or you arent ever going to get your hands on that other bar. Senior level executive excelling at increasing operational efficiencies, improving . They don't get defensive if their ideas are revealed to have flaws but rather delight in being able to move to a better solution. What is our competition doing? The key thing is finding the right team and manager, along with the comments you made. Chris Capossela. Because, except on the rare occasion, Microsoft and your team isn't going to change.But, Mini, isn't your 'raison d'etre' just the opposite? Who cut and paste buggy shit all over the codebase and don't know some of the things that a good L62 should know. The higher you go, the longer it takes. Last August (different group), I received a dreaded "Limited II", in spite of my manager telling me that he didn't actually think I was in the "bottom 10" at Microsoft, but that the devil made him do it (so to speak) and that it was a "no-brainer" for him. I think that a lot of what you wrote was spot on, although the situation varies somewhat across the company. The average entry-level engineer or program manager will have a total compensation of $125,665. Your analysis is very true, specially the part about owning the room and be regarded as the domain expert. Director can be just principal in sales or marketing. Who da'Punk Learn How to State Your Case and Earn Your Raise, Climb the Ladder With These Proven Promotion Tips, A Guide to Negotiating the Salary You Deserve, How to Prepare for Your Interview and Land the Job. Can someone explain to me the leadership hierarchy | Fishbowl What Microsoft employees earn: breaking down salaries for the company's . One thing I learned early is that the manager who says "I fought for you, sorry" is really saying "I'm too weak to make the case." You broke the trust cycle so don't expect anything else. It's a struggle even to get a solid Level 59 promoted to 60 because of budget and under-levelling of devs in 60-61 range. You must ask for a promotion when you think you are ready. I thought what I did was valuable but in the end, it wasn't.The Microsoft up or out policy is the prime directive. Just like a lot of folks have a fetish to be managers even when it is against their natures.Having said this, consider which is better: a) Rushing through the levels and to be stuck in 64 for ages (to be Kim'd is especially painful here) - think Sarah Palin orb) Going through the levels at a healthy pace, getting far deep into the salary ranges that will assure higher pay when the new levels come. I think you should play some games while searching for you L63 promotions. Great post! I am a HR manager. 83,000+ Senior Director jobs in United States (6,036 new) - LinkedIn I'd like to hear some more experiences from MCS. at But more likely youre displaying the hallmark of a weak performer described in the article of the same name (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/01/18/MN73840.DTL). If you send a brownbag invitation to your VP level group then you know your VP is getting it. Be nice, and clear in your communications. Saturday, November 15, 2008. Will <> reach Level 63 during their career? HTH. It is possible to get promoted out of a desire to be promoted. I saw several far more technically skilled people in the group who deserved this that were passed over. I joined Microsoft at L63 in Office and found it to be a freakshow of people NOT working together but understanding that no team work was better for getting a promotion FAR better than I did having come from the Valley. Asshole managers aren't unknown at Apple [] The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate cultureThanks for a nice belly laugh to re-energize my morning. For many in our sub, MCS seems to be the place of incompetent managers and just a pitstop to somewhere else. Senior Product and Strategy Director, AI/ML - LinkedIn The skip level is totally nonchalant to her ways. I agree with some comments that level make no difference. You're in competition with everyone else in your org in your CSP. Alternately, you can increase the scope of your own job and justify an increased level.So the only real question is, what do you need to do differently at the higher level? I'm interested in reading your perspective and what advice you'd give to someone new to the company looking at a career path similar to your own. So here's my 2 cents:Read this now and have a game plan for your 1:1s to tee up a deeper discussion at MYCD. How long can someone stay at the same level before they get blacklisted? In spite of it, I've been promoted 8 times in 12 years. This is all well and good, but in 9years I've never worked in a group with a Senior IC (Windows, IE, .NET), though some architects. I think talking about level just confuses people as beyond US there is a different level system!L63 in the US is Senior (Level 60 in most of the other countries), well, moving to Senior is not such a big thing if you have experience, with more than 10 years in the industry I was hired at this level, now Senior II is just a matter of continuing contributing but the different comes to Principal (or lead), here is where you need to shine in order to succeed.Recommendation: Work not only towards your commitments but your managers as well As a former L65 (left MSFT about two months ago) I can say you are right on when it comes to understanding where your boss stands. Is there much motivation to really fix Vista's perception problems?Machiavelli might note that intentionally leaving Vista's reputation in the toilet will make Windows 7 look all that much better when it comes out - allowing some of our VP's pride, ego's and bank balances to swell to truly epic proportions. If you get caught in a review and someone hits a fastball by you and you stumble, the people above you suddenly have fears that you might stumble when they and you are in front of the person who controls their careers. You've told me you're not willing to have the hard career conversation with me and/or that you're not willing to do what I told you needed to be done when we had that conversation. I'm an SDE, so a large part of my time in the product cycle is spent fixing bugs. Yes, "soft skills" count.I'm pleased that someone said it.There are a collection of skills that are difficult to quantify that are absolute necessities to succeeding at higher levels. I've been hearing some stealth layoffs around the SQL and BOSG groups, around 70+ people were given 6(?) You will not know the difference.Steve Steve Steve given the state of the company, are you sure you don't have anything else more urgent to do? While cash bonuses stay relatively stable as a percentage of salary over the course of a Microsoft employee's career, stock compensation can rise to nearly 20% of annual income at higher levels, according to the crowdsourced data. If they see flaws you have flaws. Chairman of the Board, Microsoft Corporation. PDG Tebo Terrence O. Richards Sr. PMJF, HKF, LCIP DBM,MScISM - LinkedIn 3. Also, its important to keep in mind that it is impossible to provide a perfect definition of any level. Seniority Levels in the Workplace: Types and What They Mean in my previous post i should have included a link to our internal mentor site for finding a mentor. One of my august colleges uses the analogy of a trapeze artist. Whether your manager is hardcore or touchy-feely, you need a bulldog to promote you or you ain't goin' nowhere. Bottom line: Dont be shy of asking for promotions during internal transfers. Thanks for keeping this focused. There were times when I was promoted more slowly than I probably could have been, but I am very happy with where I am now, and I am still growing. SoI'll repeat it again. That sounded like a complete crock to me. I have also always looked for those problems (opportunities). * One final important thought that hasn't been mentioned here and that is very dear to my heart is one that is not only specific to 63 but also to 65+, 66+, and 67+, and it is about moving up when you are a female at MSFT. One of my reports and I had that conversation not that long ago, and I explained to him that at 62, he can take on any task I'm asking him to do. When you see a bozo who is L65 it is highly likely that he had joined MS recently at L64-L65 directly.Here's biggest difference in expectations between levels: The L62 guys are supposed to be able to lead their feature and perhaps influence couple of related features by spreading their best practices. Is there any way to get to 63 w/o leaving and coming back? for people, who might claim that they do all this and still cant progress.. dude, either you are in wrong group or you have not introspected / taken feedback well or you are missing the whole thing by a mile. Experienced sales manager with skills in strategy, lead of direct reports, developing sales forecasts, products pricing and launching new products to the marketplace.<br>Proven abilities to manage key account relationships and large-scale projects.<br>Experienced in presenting to executive senior management, meeting with customers at CxO level and coordinating salesmen's Activities.<br><br . a Data Scientist 1. If it does, are you demonstrating success at that next level already and do people know about it? Whenever his lead would ask him to do X he would refuse and insist on doing Y instead. Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer. Tech savvy yet entrepreneurship minded hence able to see things from . Do it nicely. This is an opportunity to really do great work and innovate - learn to do your best work in the face of adversity and limited budgets and you will most likely to do well. Up to that point the "what" you accomplish can get you pretty far and you get some wiggly room on the how. Got two promotions - still level 60. This means there are 24 distinct job levels at Microsoft. right?). It sounds trite, but it's true. I made sure I was the guy you wanted to call when the server crashed in the lab with a crazy callstack and no repro.Second, OWN the features. Learning Curves and Disillusioned Learners: psychologists have known for years that skill acquisition tends to follow a typical learning curve. It takes a little time to get on your skip-level manager's radar. Most of our ways of doing things have so many imperfections that you would not have any trouble to find obvious thing to improve in obvious ways. If you know higher leveled people in another org, ask them to poke holes in your proposals. I'm interested in hearing your stories of success, mentorship, and turning a career that was off-path back on-track. ask around for a good mentor or go to our internal mentor site to be matched with a mentor http://mentor/Mentor/user/mymentoring.asp. Are you ok with what you hear? Thanks. Of course, it goes without saying that if you dont have any substance you will likely hurt yourself badly and get ignored with vengeance next time. Finally, take heart and dont become too discouraged if this is taking a little longer than it seems like it should. Is this confirmed? Continue to do so until you've slapped yourself silly to the point that you're not complaining about how other folks must just be connected or political or adept at the finer art of buttock tongue massage. You can each help each other.I've gone from 59 to 65 so far, but maybe what worked for me won't work for you. Google, Go to company page The estimated total pay for a Senior Director at Microsoft is $500,742 per year. "http://www.poppendieck.com/pdfs/Compensation.pdfWorth a read, Lisa. Not so at L63. You should be on the same side. Just pick one Job id, prepare for it and then go for internal. And don't beleive your boss if they say otherwise. But if you think you should be promoted and your manager doesn't, you shouldn't sit and seethe -- you must understand what it will take. If so I wish them good luck - as oppose to the US, these regions have laborlaws which makes it very hard for a company with Microsofts margin to lay people off. You should leave. If you want the longest Microsoft career possible, why advance any faster than you have to. Being a TS can work the same way. Thats what I call implicit :). Typically if you can accomplish only 5 such improvements, it would be hard for your manager not to consider you for next step. And I'm going to tell you right now, I'm 99.9% sure what needs to change is you. While I lost a few people who drove great results in that level, overall it was good for their career and also MS over time. Risk and return are related. In my co-workers case, they overloaded him with work and then documented anything that fell through the cracks until they had enough to get rid of him.I'm sure HR throttles managers when this is going on. L66 is Principal band. So I guess I know what it takes go get to level 63. If youve capped out at Level 62 then MS is probably not a great fit for you. But power plays are at work and I get smacked when I try and take on extra work. Eventually, their team will remove itself from his control through internal transfers to teams with better managers, and the asshole ends up getting canned in a re-org if he doesn't see the writing on the wall and use his Apple resume entry to jump to some other company.The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate culture, and that you are part of the problem.-jcr, Think of the guy in the other companyI don't like where this is goingThat is the guy to beat.No, No, NO!Think of the customer, not the competition! I went from level 62 to level 65 in that time. Know Your Worth. Incompetent People Really Have No Clue: If youre one of the people complaing about how youre not getting promoted because your mgr is incompetent and youre just as good as all those others who got promoted you could be right. And on one total-eclipse-rare occasion, I've been able to be answer the follow-up question: will they reach L65 and say with confidence: Absolutely. Senior Account Executive | Director | Sales & Marketing. I spent 5 years on level 61. Be very careful, because some people may tell you about this or that great thing they did, and only mention that they are (or were) married to this General Manager, or that they have been in the team since it was only 2 people, and the other person today is a VP.