Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. ADSO stands for Active Duty Service Obligation. Your previous content has been restored. The US Army is missing the boat by not letting seasoned professionals into flight school. From this mid-grade officer's perspective this constant obsession with readiness is actually detrimental to readiness. There is no down time, no time to build family and relationships and the team. Because honestly put the lifestyle sucks nowadays. Fiscal Yr 2021 starts Oct 1, 2020. That's the Army's ace in the hole. Sounds great! By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. (USASOC) Commissioned and warrant officers who enter flight training starting in October will incur a 10-year service obligation once they become rated Army aviator s, according to guidance. It will give you a recruiting advantage because a person out of high school or a year of college could position themselves for later on in life. b. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Final thoughts the social aspect of the Army has never been worse. Our young NCOs want to become warrant officers and get out and fly. Why would you stay in the Army where you barely get to be a normal human, where you could make twice the pay, work half the amount, and actually get to live a somewhat normal life? The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. Also, it ap-plies to the Regular Army and Reserve Component officers (Army National Guard and U.S. Army Reserve) ordered into aviation service by the Secretary of the Army and applies to all commissioned and warrant officers who are training for or have Army aeronautical ratings. I think it would be a great idea to leverage senior NCOs to enter pilot training with a waiver. By Thomas Brading, Army News ServiceAugust 18, 2020. army aviation 10 year adso. Brennan Randelis a captain in the United States Army and is the former commander of Alpha Company, 4-2 Attack Battalion stationed at Camp Humphreys, South Korea. Yes, most of us eventually plan to move on to the airlines. Initial assignments should be in table of organiza-tion and equipment (TOE) rather than table of distribution and allowances (TDA) units. We dont have good measurements out there right now to tell us why an aviator is getting out of the force. Without useful data, the Army cannot implement targeted retention solutions. The Modern War Institute does not screen articles to fit a particular editorial agenda, nor endorse or advocate material that is published. Some of the impacts may have directly affected [Soldiers] ability to pursue [their] goals of working for the commercial sector, especially the airlines.. It further acts as a disincentive to those who would like to do the mission, but are unwilling to sacrifice a decade of their time in the event they don't like the lifestyle. NG will have 10 years. More than likely, the aviations slots will be filled by personnel lower on the OML. Another anecdote, when I was deployed there was a desire to have experienced cockpits on higher risk/higher visibility missions usually two pilots with 1000+ total hours. Pasted as rich text. We are always either training or deploying. Now that Im older and wiser, one of my many side-hustles is working as an Admission Liaison Officer for the USAF Academy. For example, its the only service that allows people to go into flight training with only a high school degree. Gen. Michael McCurry, the director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7,who said in September, One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall? On this career path, Stan is most likely to leave young kids at home with his spouse while he deploys. The congressional study on pilot retention noted, One of the most important variables in meeting pilot requirements is the retention rate, as this is used to estimate what level of new pilot production is needed.. The future of Army aviation depends on retaining the pilots in whom it invests so much. That will solve our retention problem!" At least 70% are not degree holders and they come from all 5 branches of the military. Wonder if you can get out early if NOT making CW3 or must you hang around. 2-4 more moves for assignments during his Active Duty career. This can exceed a 6 year obligation. Within the company we tried to level out flight time to give the senior guys some rest, but the battalion/brigade leadership was too risk averse and pushed back. If you, the seasoned army aviator, were still a senior in college and told that to become an aviator you had to sign for a 10-year + flight school ADSO, would you do it? Before people get started on the, this is the way the Army goes and all that, I know. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school inFY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. Perhaps it's just for RLOs but don't count on that. Before Army Secretary Ryan D. McCarthy signed a memorandum for the change in June, the Army had bumped up its incentive pay for aviators in January. What I would like to add is almost the opposite of some of these comments. For the next decade of your life, you will deploy a lot and have little or no control over your assignment locations. There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. A RAND Corporation studyfound that even $35,000 a year would not be sufficient to stem the flow of Air Force pilotsthe study concluded a bonus cap between $38,500 and $62,500 would be necessary to make a meaningful impact. That's not what I am talking about. Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. Again, 70 percent of Army pilots are warrant officers, while Air Force pilots are all officers. I ended up discovering that Stan was most worried about frequent moves and long deployments stressing his family during an Active Duty flying career. Hed still have to go through steps 2-5 from the Active Duty pilot career path above! , I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive. I remember similar drama during my Fourth Class (freshman) year at the USAF Academy as we were forced to sign a paper accepting a similar ADSC increase in case of getting an Air Force pilot slot. 9 month rotations are followed by field time, followed by gunnery, followed by EIB, followed by a CTC, etc. Do that and fix quality of life issues. Your email address will not be published. The Army can increase this to 100% with no problem whatsoever if needed. The Army, by contrast, could only say that Army senior leaders recognize there are growing civilian opportunities for Army pilots. More money for tents and rifles, I suppose. Yes, the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is the best it gets you to all of your goals the fastest. This is doubly applicable for aviation formations. Why or why not? Has this officially started? I wonder how this will effect street to seat recruitment for WOFT. So Army. 10 is a big commitment either way. Comments will be moderated before posting to ensure logical, professional, and courteous application to article content. Subject to the needs of the Army, newly rated aviators should be used in operational flying duty positions immedi-ately after their successful completion of Army aviation flight training. The ARMY should allow ATP for all prior service men willing and fit to fly. A large number of aviation personnel have a lot of passion and dedication to the mission, but that can only last so long when your life consists ONLY of the mission. I think that mindser still exists. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school in FY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. The Army must also capture the opinions of those it can still retain. Those serving on active duty for less than 10 years shall serve in the Ready Reserve as follows: For active duty service less than 8 years, 6 years in the Ready Reserve. Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. I'm not ignoring anything that has been posted within this thread -- again, it's all been awesome -- but I want to feel as sure as possible that the opinions expressed here are an accurate assessment of the average Army Aviation experience. That's my issue (age waiver). A reduction in accessions will turn a long-term solution into a short-term problem. If you, the seasoned army aviator, were still a senior in college and told that to become an aviator you had to sign for a 10-year + flight school ADSO, would you do it? There are many complexities in these advanced helicopters, which translates to increased costs in flight hours, maintenance, and training requirements, Kearns said. Press J to jump to the feed. Many aviators got tripped up by it in the last few years in the push to get to the airlines. Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. But at what cost? Paste as plain text instead, I got out because I wanted to fly, but kept getting stuck in staff positions where I either couldn't fly, or had limited opportunities to fly. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to earn a 20-year military retirement.. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. I've been in the Army for a long time, and it's never been worse than now. This used to be unheard of. We need people with your background, dedication and professionalism in the warrant officer cohort. The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. I feel that part of the problem is that the Army assessed too many senior NCOs into flight school, which helped get them into this box that they are in. Yes, life there is fantastic, and its important to get there as quickly as you can because Seniority is Everything. Believe it or not, more than a few fellow senior non rated Army officers are jealous when it comes to flight pay. Did ROTC, then Aviation, allegedly 6 years upon completion of flight training. There is still an aviation bonus for mid career tracked guys, and while some success has been had with that, I dont know if theyve gotten the response desired for the blood money though. This may be because the Army has not undertaken the same in-depth approach to understanding this problem as other services. I'm very healthy and fit, I would like to fly helicopters. 6 years is a masters degree, 10 years is 2 years longer than a PH. I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a military pilot. If I am reading this correctly, this applies to officers that attend initial flight school after October 1st 2021. Although its less common to get more than 6-12 months of your ADSC forgiven under this program, that still gets you off Active Duty sooner than expected. Serving on Active Duty has plenty of advantages, and even offers some highly-desirable opportunities that you cant get anywhere else. The Army lowered the max TIS to 8 years for WOFT applicants a few years ago without a waiver. Deployed Civil Engineers https://www.dvidshub.net/image/491088/deployed-civil-engineers. I dont know if there are enough of us to completely change policy, but you need pilots and Im willing to fly for whatever period is demanded of me Im not the only one. I would never have signed a 10 year ADSO for army aviation. , this is far from guaranteed. BrADSO - I signed for one, but then I know for a fact that it wasnt required/taken but its still on my iPERMS. However, increasing the service obligation of new pilots is the wrong course of action. Check this post out on Reddit:https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. Lets compare these options to see why. Before trying to add more pilots, or change quality of life (which I don't think they're trying to do), they should look at leveling the demands on pilots within the ranks. Increasing the ADSO, though, does not require datait is guaranteed to increase retention. Commercial airlines offer higher salaries, more career control, and stabilization. I know this is an old article but as a graduating senior this policy is stupid. What I would propose is to change the flight school is conducted to make it cheaper and make it easier to increase throughput. However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty UPT slot in hopes of possibly getting a Guard or Reserve slot 5 years from now. However, after spending a few more minutes thinking about how these career paths might compare, I decided Stans idea might not be as advantageous after all. There are some other prerequisites they have to meet. Stans Active Duty pilot peers would have spent 8-11 years since graduating from college flying for the military full time. Think about approving some ETPs. Getting in just under the wire. I dont think I wouldve taken the 10 Year ADSO, considering that Id just now be ALMOST complete with 10 yrs aviation service. Weve seen, If youre headed to pilot training, you absolutely must read our 3-part series on Winning UPT. Laws and regulations that govern military personnel may So here I am, considering branching aviation when all of a sudden.BAM! By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The program offers an incentive to remain on active duty in aviation service for either 3 or 5 years, beginning at ADSO expiry or contract approval date, whichever is later. That's my 2 cents. There is no replacement theory for ARFORGEN they decided to just shelve it and go with "let's make everyone miserable all the time". for a discussion of these options and their advantages.) It involves no effort to understand the underlying factors that cause Army pilots to depart and is nothing more than a surface-level solution to a fundamental problem. That's the Army's ace in the hole. MWI Podcast: Is Great-Power Competition a Strategy? If people don't want to serve, you are actually harming readiness, not helping it. Cadets, who have not experienced the Army for even one day as an officer, are now asked to commit up to eleven years for the opportunity to fly for six yearsif they are luckywhile spending the rest of that time on staff, in professional military education, or in broadening assignments. While its not impossible, and, BogiDope can absolutely help you get there. I crushed the SIFT, passed my flight physical, have a great OML standing, etc., so I should have a good chance of getting my top pick. The increased ADSO shows that senior leaders fundamentally do not understand the issues, and it will do nothing to address the attrition as the years go on. The root cause cited by those transitioning at various levels has related to toxic climates, mismanagement of professional profiles, quality of life, and unit culture. Army and Air Force use this pay. By They run concurrently, butthe latter takes precedence, so your 6 (or 10) year ADSO begins the date you graduate Flight School. The 10 year ADSO was based on whether or not you pinned WO1/2LT by a certain date, not by when you started or graduated IERW. The Army is making those who want to go through flight school incur a 10 year active duty service obligation (ADSO) as it's "fix" for pilot retention. My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! As long as hes getting a lot of flight time, Stan should have enough hours for a Restricted ATP rating and a shot at a regional airline job a couple of years before his Active Duty pilot peers. COVID has taken care of the airline hiring problem for the next three to five years, making the issueance of an increased ADSO redundant. 10 year ADSO started FY21. The views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. This is the second part of a series about choosing between military and civilian career options. Furthermore, the Army should implement quality of life and quality of service surveys for every pilot who remains. This plan assumes that Stan can get hired by a Guard or Reserve unit at this point. Guess what? After working several years in the corporate sector in various strategic positions, I recently came back on active duty due to the strong desire to serve. But Im a guard guy so RTAG is at the end of hooker advanced airframe for me theyll be hiring, all my airline buddies said everything is ramping back up. He was thinking about turning down an Active Duty UPT slot and fulfilling the alternative 5-year USAFA non-pilot ADSC as an engineer or something, then pursuing a UPT slot with a Guard or Reserve unit. That's what the Army was counting on. Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. The Armys blind spot with retention data is further highlighted by comments made by Brig. Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. If Stan becomes an engineer in the Air Force, hed probably have to attend some sort of training right after graduating from college. I don't know if there are enough Officers getting out that would be willing to revert to WO to solve the pilot shortage, but maybe it would help. In regards to our flight school length, the AF and Navy actually won't recognize our flight school as a valid flight school for earning wings if we try to branch transfer as part of it which I do find amusing. Just so we know I'm not a whiny do nothing: seven deployments, six combat for a total of 70 months and 66 months respectively. The earlier you can Palace Chase, the less difference there is between a regular Active Duty pilot and someone following Stans plan. Their workload is increased several fold versus the units that they are supporting. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. Fixed wing is cheaper. There's definitely a balance issue, and I suppose the grass is always greener on the other side. Think they will pay the bonuses and flight pay like the other branches? (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in '47.) Meanwhile students don't do touchdown autorotations and other traditional flight maneuvers. Looks like 11-11.5 year total commitment. My talk with Stan covered all of these, so my next question was, How long were you planning on being involved in military aviation then? Just sign away your life until you're 34!". Aviation: dude it's a 10 year ADSO, so I hope you like aviation, cuz you ain't going anywhere else. Hed probably get 2-3 years at that assignment, but if he did a good job the Air Force would offer him the chance to get a Masters Degree through the Air Force Institute of Technology (AFIT) at Wright Patterson AFB.