Check out our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genealogy/wiki/index#wiki_faq_.28frequently_asked_questions.29)! When Niall grows up he returns to Tara and rescues his mother from her labour. Based on U Nill genealogies and the dates given for his supposed sons and grandsons, modern historians believe he is likely to have lived some 50 years later than the traditional dates, dying circa 450. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. He then kills Laidchenn by throwing a stone which lodges in his forehead. The earliest version of the Lebor Gabla says Eochaid killed him on the English Channel, later versions adding that Niall was invading Brittany when this happened. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. However, the genetic evidence of the study does seem to show that the She gives birth as she is drawing water, but out of fear of Mongfind, she leaves the child on the ground, exposed to the birds. [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. We would expect to find a large concentration of Niall's descendants there, as the Southern U Nill were dominant in that region, but we do not. predominant, while the M222 pattern is found in 8.2% or one man in twelve. with this signature is so high, the patriarch must have been prolific. Fiachrae and Ailill then make war against Crimthann's son Eochaid, king of Munster. [15] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. history of Ireland In Ireland: Early political history Joined then by the Irish in Alba, he marched against the Picts, overcame them, took hostages from them and had Argyle and Cantire settled upon the Albanach Irish. But claiming that you're descended from Niall of the Nine Hostages is BS, because even if it were true, there is no proof. Menu. Professor Dith hgin seems to indicate that Niall was likely a descendant of the Gaulish seafaring tribe of the Veneti, who originated in south-east Armorica (modern Brittany, France). The only company that does Y-dna tests is FTdna (FamilyTreeDNA). kingship existed. The Family Tree Irish Genealogy Guide paperback. Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. Niall of the Nine Hostages, (in Irish, Niall Naoi Nogiallach) is a quasi-historical character in Ireland's story. Fergus and Ailill refuse and return empty-handed. repulsive, with green teeth and nails, matted unkempt hair, a decidedly crooked Then Niall makes war against Leinster, and peace is concluded on the condition that Eochaid is handed over. [6], Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne and Coirpre. Myth has it that he was descended by He was, moreover, founder of the longest, most important, and most powerful Irish dynasty. Joined then by the Irish in Alba, he marched against the Picts, overcame them, took hostages from them and had Argyle and Cantire settled upon the Albanach Irish. and tr. He was one of the greatest of the High Kings of Ireland in prehistoric days, but one of the least known to modern historians. Boyle, Bradley, Campbell, Cannon, Coleman, Connor, Devlin, Doherty, Donnell, signature is created. an unknown number of generations from Conn Cadcathlach aka Conn of the Hundred A second, and probably less reliable, story is that Niall took a hostage from each of Ireland's five ancient provinces (Connaught, Munster, Leinster, Ulster and Meath) and also captured a Briton, a Gaul, a Saxon and a Scot. There are Niall of the Nine Hostages - Celtic Wedding Rings Though the legendary stories of his life may have been invented hundreds of years after he died, genetic evidence suggests that the U Nill dynasty, whose name means "descendants of Niall," did in fact trace back to just one man who bore a branch of haplogroup R-M269. Niall Noigiallach aka "Niall of the Nine Hostages" was one of the greatest Irish kings. All but two of the High Kings of Tara came from this family. Niall, Mongfind refuses to accept the decision. [7] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Niall fitted out a large fleet and sailed to the assistance of his people. We've all technically got "common ancestor" with Niall because we've all got a common paternal ancestor. Occasional [6] These sons are the eponymous ancestors of the various U Nill dynasties: Egan of the Cenl nEgain and Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, making up the northern U Nill; Fiachu of the Cenl Fiachach dynasty, Legaire (the king who Saint Patrick is said to have converted) of the Cenl Legaire, Maine of the U Maine, Egan of the Cenl nEgain, Conall Cremthainne of the Clann Cholmin and the Sl nedo Sline, and Coirpre of the Cenl Coirpri, making up the southern U Nill. I am not sure if his father Eochy Moyvone is the same person as shown im other sources namely Echu Mugmedn, so I have shown both. Niall of the Nine Hostages leapt from the legends of Ireland straight into the modern world when scientists at Trinity College Dublin revealed that as many as three million men living today may carry his y-DNA signature. The baby is rescued and brought up by a poet called Torna. Ireland's five ancient provinces (Connaught, Munster, Leinster, Ulster and However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. [9], While Niall is High King, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. Niall was famed for his raids on Britain along with his brothers and sons. More recently 23andMe redefined it as R-P311 from an early ancestor associated with group M269. Niall, who emerges carrying an anvil, is deemed greater than Brin, with a sledgehammer, Fiachrae with bellows and a pail of beer, Ailill with a chest of weapons, and Fergus with a bundle of wood. [7] However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[5] and Francis J. Byrne[4]:pp. findings led them to the notion that Niall of the Nine Hostages may be the Big 222-232 O'Rahilly and Byrne argue that the literary sources, though late and garbled, preserve genuine traditions that Niall led raids on Britain, and perhaps died on one.[2]:pp. By his wife, Carthann, daughter of a British king, Eochaid had the son Niall. Variations of this story are told of the earlier Irish high king Lugaid Logde, in Arthurian legend one of the most famous versions appears in both Geoffrey Chaucer's The Wife of Bath's Tale and the related Gawain romance, The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnell and in John Gower's Middle English poem Confessio Amantis. Are you familiar with the Irish 'Wild Geese'? Since women dont inherit a Y chromosome, they must trace their paternal line through their fathers, brothers or paternal uncles Y-chromosome data. or central areas of Scotland have the so-called Niall of the Nine Hostages r/23andme - Anyone else related to Niall of the Nine Hostages? Was he France, killed on the banks of River Loire. The geneticists estimated that there are about 2-3 million males alive today who descend in the male-line from Niall. Howard, W.E. Sithchenn takes the brothers to the smith, who makes them weapons, and sends them out hunting. revealed that as many as three million men living today may carry his y-DNA Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. [19][20] According to the PBS documentary series Finding Your Roots, Bill O'Reilly, Stephen Colbert, Colin Quinn, Bill Maher, and the show's host, Henry Louis Gates, Jr. all display STR markers consistent with the Irish Modal Haplotype. [3] These sons are the eponymous ancestors of the various U Nill dynasties: Egan of the Cenl nEgain and Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, making up the northern U Nill; Fiachu of the Cenl Fiachach dynasty, Legaire (the king who Saint Patrick is said to have converted) of the Cenl Legaire, Maine of the U Maine, Egan of the Cenl nEgain, Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, Conall Cremthainne of the Clann Cholmin and the Sl nedo Sline, and Coirpre of the Cenl Coirpri, making up the southern U Nill. He died in a raid on Roman France in 405 AD. 85% of Irish men belong to a paternal lineage called R1b1b2, but since this line is also common across the rest of western Europe, it doesnt definitively determine if a man has Irish ancestry. He makes war and destroys the poet's stronghold, killing his son Leat[11] (Keating has it that Laidchenn was a druid, and that Eochaid killed his son after he used defamatory language towards him). That slave would later escape and go to become Ireland's patron. [12] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinster are not reliably recorded but have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. [7]:222232 O'Rahilly and Byrne argue that the literary sources, though late and garbled, preserve genuine traditions that Niall led raids on Britain, and perhaps died on one. The Vikings were driven out in 1014 by Brian Boru, but not before their DNA was embedded in the Celtic gene. [10] nna's son Eochaid is named as Niall's killer in all sources, although the circumstances vary. Even though I dont have a Y chromosome, I can learn about my paternal line through my biological brothers or fathers DNA. Many and many a time, in Alba, in Britain, and in Gaul, must Niall have measured his leadership against the best leadership of Rome, and pitted the courage and wild daring of his Scotic hosts against the skill of the Imperial Legions. The Munstermen renew the battle, capture Ailill and cut him to pieces, and war continues between Munster and Connacht for many years. My R1b P-311 comes from Germany how about German King 23andme? signature is created. Of their Irish sample, the geneticists found that 21 percent of men from north-western Ireland, 8 percent from all of Ireland, a substantial percentage of men from western and central Scotland, and about 2 percent of men from New York bore the same Y-chromosome haplotype. ), "Echtra Mac nEchach Muigmedin: The Adventures of the Sons of Eochaid Muigmedin", in, This page was last edited on 17 February 2023, at 06:56. [9], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. I got that same badge in my 23andme YDNA report. fingerprint of Niall of the Nine Hostages in the y-DNA of one in five men His body is said to have been buried at Ochann, now known as Faughan Hill in County Meath. Fiachrae gives her a quick peck, but not enough to satisfy her. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. Niall was said to have ruled over Tara, but modern historians think it more likely that Tara was founded by Niall's decendents, and that Niall himself actually set up his kingdom at Uisnech, another "royal hill". Then his father said: "It is Niall who should succeed me as Ard Righ of Eirinn". I may be wrong though. Of their Irish sample, the geneticists found that 21 percent of men from north-western Ireland, 8 percent from all of Ireland, a substantial percentage of men from western and central Scotland, and about 2 percent of men from New York bore the same Y-chromosome haplotype. Keating associates these raids with those mentioned by Gildas and Bede, and deduces that, since some Irish sources say Patrick was abducted from Brittany, that Niall's raids must have extended to continental Europe as well.[5]. niall of the nine hostages 23andme. "When Scots came thundering from the Irish shores. Tom Peete Cross & Clark Harris Slover (eds.). Dedicated to helping YOU discover your Irish Heritage. 215. Under him the spirit of pagan Ireland upleaped in its last great red flame of military glory, a flame that, in another generation, was to be superseded by a great white flame, far less fierce but far more powerful and the bounds of neighboring nations to the uttermost bounds of Europe. Modern surnames tracing their ancestry to Niall include (O')Neill, (O')Gallagher, (O')Boyle, (O')Doherty, O'Donnell, Connor, Cannon, Bradley, O'Reilly, Flynn, (Mc)Kee, Campbell, Devlin, Donnelly, Egan, Gormley, Hynes, McCaul, McGovern, McLoughlin, McManus, McMenamin, Molloy, O'Kane, O'Rourke and Quinn. Niall fitted out a large fleet and sailed to the assistance of his people. Sign up to IrishCentral's newsletter to stay up-to-date with everything Irish! the brothers decide they're not that hungry or thirsty. Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinster are not reliably recorded and have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. Niall's legendary military skill was on a par with his sexual prowess. Donnelly, Egan, Flynn, Gallagher, Gormley, Hynes, Kane, McGovern, McLoughlin, [22] Indeed, more recent estimates indicate that the R1b-M222 subclade marked by the Moore et al. Descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages | Facebook 23andme specifies it as R-M269 and says "You share a paternal-line ancestor with Niall of the Nine Hostages" . By the 8th century, the Ui Nills held power in the north west where they were known as the Northern Ui Nill, and also in the Midlands where they are known as the Southern Ui Nill. and probably less reliable, story is that Niall took a hostage from each of concluded that these men descend from "a single early-medieval progenitor" and proposed that this could be Niall. Another, Fiachra, has The sources for the details of Niall's life are genealogies of historical kings, the "Roll of Kings" section of the Lebor Gabla renn, Irish annals such as the Annals of the Four Masters, chronicles such as Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn, and legendary tales like "The Adventure of the Sons of Eochaid Mugmedon" and "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages". Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. Adventure of the sons of Eochaid Mugmedon, a young Niall Nogiallach is out Niall married Princess Of Britain ROIGHNEACH. [5], However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[3] and Francis J. Byrne[2]:pp. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded.[4]:70. So Ireland was a perfect place to host a community Geno 2.0 event.'. In the Three of his sons founded kingdoms in Ulster (collectively the Northern Ui Neill), other sons founded kingdom in the Irish midlands (the Southern Ui Neill). Throughout the 1600 and 1700s, thousands of Irish men of fighting age would migrate to Europe as 'Soldiers for Hire' to fight in various wars. My guess is celtic migtation from Ireland to Northern Spain. Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person,[3]:70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. 390-460). [3] Byrne, following James Carney, is a little more precise, dating his death to c. The story then becomes confused. https://reddit.app.link/S7mCRh4DeR I think you're probably right about the Northern Spain theory. His body is said to have been buried at Ochann, now known as Faughan Hill at Jordanstown, a few miles west of Navan in County Meath. Occasional The geneticists estimated that about 23 million men bear this haplotype. [8]:222232 O'Rahilly and Byrne argue that the literary sources, though late and garbled, preserve genuine traditions that Niall led raids on Britain, and perhaps died on one. [7], Although it is anachronistic for Niall's mother to have been a Saxon, O'Rahilly argues that the name Cairenn is derived from the Latin name Carina, and that it is plausible that she might have been a Romano-Briton. More info: https://www.familytreedna.com/landing/matching-niall.aspx. His mother appears to have had much influence over his elderly father which helped Niall gain supremacy over his elder half brothers from Connacht. If 23andMe says you're M222+, that part is not BS. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. in hand with natural suitability for kinship) dates back to at least the 11th The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. [27], There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. xenophon agesilaus summary; It was in one of these Gallic expeditions that the lad Succat, destined under his later name of Patrick to be the greatest and noblest figure Ireland ever knew, was taken in a sweep of captives, carried to Ireland and to Antrim, there to herd the swine of the chieftain, Milcho. If 23andMe says you're M222+, that part is not BS. I was just wandering because it said most Irish have the common ancestor as well. Niall of the Nine Hostages leapt from the legends of Ireland [2] Famous descendants include Niall's great-great grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, the Kings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. You might consider getting a Y-DNA test to see if you can learn more. Yet how often out of evil cometh good. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. powerful people who controlled an area loosely centred on present-day Armagh Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. the brothers, Fergus, goes off to look for water and comes upon an ugly hag. Niall of the Nine Hostages was so named because in his early reign he consolidated his power by taking hostages from opposing royal families. Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. Their father, who was looking on (and who, say some, designedly caused the fire, to test his sons), observed with interest Neill's distinctiveness of character, his good sense and good judgment. What is a maternal line? A legendary account of Niall's birth and early life is given in the possibly-11th-century tale Echtra mac nEchach Muimedin ("The adventure of the sons of Eochaid Mugmedn"). He formed an alliance with the Scots and Picts and sent ships to plunder England, Scotland, Wales, and France. People move. The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinster are not reliably recorded but have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. Father of Fiachu mac Nill, King of Meath; Conall Gulban mac Nill, King of Tirconal; Egan mac Nill; Legaire, High King of Ireland; Min mac Nill and 3 others; Conall Cremthainn mac Nill; Cairbre mac Nill, High King of Ireland and ndae mac Nill less, There are arguments to be made for Niall as an historical figure, but the father assigned to him in the genealogies comes from a long line of legendary kings; his profile can be found here: Eochaid mac Muiredach mac Muiredach, Ard-r na h'ireann {Legendary, Lebor Gabla renn}, http://www.friesian.com/perifran.htm#england. 279. r/23andme. Seeing Niall's popularity among the nobles, Mongfind demands that Eochaid name a successor, hoping it will be one of her sons. 452. Niall was grandson of Muiredeach Tireach. [22][23] According to the PBS documentary series Finding Your Roots, Bill O'Reilly, Stephen Colbert, Colin Quinn, Bill Maher, and the show's host, Henry Louis Gates Jr. all display STR markers consistent with the Irish Modal Haplotype. Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person, [2] :70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. 76-78[6]:p. 220, Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. Talk about your genes and their possible implications! That is to say, after 6-10 generations, you will lose track of entire ancestors and their ethnicity. [4], [edit]L egendary biography[edit ]Early life, Although it is anachronistic for Niall's mother to have been a Saxon, O'Rahilly argues that the name Cairenn is derived from the Latin name Carina, and that it is plausible that she might have been a Romano-Briton. In it, Eochaid Mugmedn, the High King of Ireland, had five sons: Four, Brin, Ailill, Fiachrae and Fergus, by his first wife Mongfind, sister of the king of Munster, Crimthann mac Fidaig; and a fifth, Niall, by his second wife Cairenn Chasdub, daughter of Sachell Balb, king of the Saxons. Niall 'of the Nine Hostages', High King of Ireland (1), Niall 'of the Nine Hostages', High King of Ireland gained the title of King Niall of Tara.1 He gained the title of High King Niall of Ireland in 445.1 Children of Niall 'of the Nine Hostages', High King of Ireland, -1. [8] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. Perhaps more myth than man, Niall of the Nine Hostages is said to have been a King of Tara in northwestern Ireland in the late 4th century C.E. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts [6], Early in 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. [14] However, more recently some reservations have been expressed, as the subclade, which is defined by the presence of the marker R-M222, is found in a belt from Northern Ireland across southern Scotland and is not exclusively associated with the U Nill. Some of The maternal DNA results showed greater genetic diversity than the paternal, including lineages that dated back to some of the islands earliest settlers, and some others that arrived more recently, ie: the Vikings. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. [17] The Scottish Clan Ewen of Otter, Gilchrist; Clan Lamont; the MacSorleys of Monydrain,[18] (of Clan MacDonald of Dunnyveg a branch of Clan Donald); Clan Maclachlan; Clan MacNeil, and the MacSweens all claim a descent from an Irish prince of the O'Neill dynasty, nrothn Ua Nill/Anrothan O'Neill, son of ed, son of Flaithbertach Ua Nill, King of Ailech and Cenl nEgain, who left Ireland for Kintyre in the 11th century and died 1036. [6 ] Indeed, Keating describes her not as a Saxon but as the "daughter of the king of Britain". Battles, who may have lived in the middle of the 2nd century and was reputedly AFN source shows another son called Foghan OWEN - AFN: 8HRT-NK. He then kills Laidchenn by throwing a stone which lodges in his forehead. Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. Keating associates these raids with those mentioned by Gildas and Bede, and deduces that, since some Irish sources say Patrick was abducted from Brittany, that Niall's raids must have extended to continental Europe as well.[6]. two stories to identify Niall's nine hostages. Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. ", According to 23andMe.com, "The spread of haplogroup R-M269 in northern Ireland and Scotland was likely aided by men like Niall of the Nine Hostages. Sep 12, 2021. In the study scientists found an area in northwest Ireland where they claim 21.5% carry Nialls genetic fingerprint, says Brian McVoy, one of the team at Trinity. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. Y-DNA is I'm stuck at R-P311 and 23andme gives Niall of the Nine Hostages which is flat out DUMB. [14] However, more recently some reservations have been expressed, as the subclade, which is defined by the presence of the marker R-M222, is found in a belt from Northern Ireland across southern Scotland and is not exclusively associated with the U Nill. Niall of the Nine Hostages (Celtic Twilight) - Goodreads The geneticists estimated that about 23 million men bear this haplotype. Lastly, is it more likely British or Irish? The common ancestor that you and Niall have wasn't necessarily from Ireland. [15] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. II, The History of Ireland by Geoffrey Keating, "The Laud Genealogies and Tribal Histories", "A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland. Its guidance will be useful to any researcher of Irish heritage, but especially for the target Irish-American researcher who's struggling to work back to Ireland from their immigrant ancestor. As Niall was his father's favorite, Mong Fionn did not rest until she had outcast him and his mother, Carthann, and made Carthann her menial, carrying water to the court. The boy eventually escaped, but returned to Ireland as St. Patrick. For more information, please see our [6 ], King Of Ireland & Tara Niall Mor NOIGIALLACH, Died: Abt 453, Tara, Ireland about age 73. His reign dated to the late 4th and early 5th centuries. Niall of the Nine Hostages was the greatest king that Ireland knew between the time of Cormac MacArt and the coming of Patrick. [7 ] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. Watch a video of a lecture presented at Genetic Genealogy Ireland conference to learn more about research by the O'Neill DNA Group: here.
Everquest Gear Progression, Duke Academic Calendar Spring 2022, Articles N